Battery failing?

[airline tech]

I am wondering, but it goes against the service manual that drives it home to only perform BMS reset after battery change - which I understand
But the charging algorithm is controlled by the PCM and BCM and is using Time Installed as it's reference (age of battery)
I wonder if doing a BMS reset say every oil change would help in extending the life of the battery and resolve most of the issues owners are experiencing.
I am understanding that the older the battery is (Time Installed) the system is actually lowering its charging phases due to its reference to the time installed (age)
I am only pondering thought here, I have no back up documentation to my theory, I don't think the system actually monitors battery health (ability to hold charge)

If you think about it, you are basically doing the same thing when you are leaving on battery tender etc. you are forcing a new battery charge bypassing the BMS (current-Charging Phase) it is in.

I will dig deep on this subject, but unfortunately there is no real in-depth explanation on how this system works, only vague descriptions. But I'm assuming it proprietary info, or it would be easy to find. The BCM and PCM have the internal programming (set-points) voltages but what are they?
Any why does the manual make it so IMPORTANT, not to perform BMS reset unless battery is replaced?
What harm would it do to perform a BMS reset and refresh the charging phases (cycle) on an older aged battery?
The way I understand it, you would be telling the system, I have a new battery installed (actually) faking it and forcing the system to charge the battery like new, thus by-passing the need for battery tenders

I am also thinking the BMS system operates similar to the OIL Life Reset, it's calcinated by the Time since reset and other factors (miles etc)

If anyone disagrees with this thought - please post

Just A Thought

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[AzScorpion]

It's only going to get worse as the state attracts more leeches.

Now the state (employers and employees) is paying for 12 weeks off of work for virtually anything.

I'm planning on having a stalker come 2024, the state will provide for 12 weeks of salary for me to seek protective orders and shore up home defenses.

Wanna be my "stalker?"

I'm willing to give it a go.

 

[IdahoRanger]

Wanna be my "stalker?"

Where is Duke?

 

[airline tech]

I am wondering, but it goes against the service manual that drives it home to only perform BMS reset after battery change - which I understand
But the charging algorithm is controlled by the PCM and BCM and is using Time Installed as it's reference (age of battery)
I wonder if doing a BMS reset say every oil change would help in extending the life of the battery and resolve most of the issues owners are experiencing.
I am understanding that the older the battery is (Time Installed) the system is actually lowering its charging phases due to its reference to the time installed (age)
I am only pondering thought here, I have no back up documentation to my theory, I don't think the system actually monitors battery health (ability to hold charge)

If you think about it, you are basically doing the same thing when you are leaving on battery tender etc. you are forcing a new battery charge bypassing the BMS (current-Charging Phase) it is in.

I will dig deep on this subject, but unfortunately there is no real in-depth explanation on how this system works, only vague descriptions. But I'm assuming it proprietary info, or it would be easy to find. The BCM and PCM have the internal programming (set-points) voltages but what are they?
Any why does the manual make it so IMPORTANT, not to perform BMS reset unless battery is replaced?
What harm would it do to perform a BMS reset and refresh the charging phases (cycle) on an older aged battery?
The way I understand it, you would be telling the system, I have a new battery installed (actually) faking it and forcing the system to charge the battery like new, thus by-passing the need for battery tenders

I am also thinking the BMS system operates similar to the OIL Life Reset, it's calcinated by the Time since reset and other factors (miles etc)

If anyone disagrees with this thought - please post

Just A Thought

A litte bit of info from the Escape Forums (Copy & Paste)

The Battery Monitoring Sensor can't monitor the battery's internal temp, only the temp of the post and amperage can only be measured inductively by what is passing through the cable at any given time. (Hence the reason for not using the battery negative post as an accessory ground, the draw is not detected by the sensor).

What it does do is monitor voltage and reports that to the BCM over the LIN bus, from there the BCM will shutdown ACM/APIM is the ignition is turned off when the battery voltage drops. If the ignition is on, and the Battery Management System reports low voltage the BCM will shutdown accessories like the ACM/APIM, heated seats, wipers, defroster in order to provide power to the PSCM and the engine.

The Battery Management System looks at day 1 as being a brand new battery and the logic keeps a cumulative value of the voltage/charge rate with the lowest value being considered the current battery state. The value is held in PROM on the BCM and the only time it clears is with a reset of the system

The BMS reset is a days of use counter with the logic being that the resistance increases over time, so the amp charging rate is reduced in order to avoid overheating the battery.

Thought the wording of these post's would make it easier for owners to understand how it works

 

[pbethel]

Same thing my daughter tells me, numerous younger people move here because they think it's a cool place, say they love it at 1st and 6 months later many are disenchanted with the high cost of living and other drawbacks. The people that can afford it are in many cases employees of companies enticed to move here by generous incentives, continuing the upward cost spiral that has made the area unaffordable to avg wage earners and long time residents. Complete bs and the ruination of the state , oh but looking on the bright side the reintro of the Grey wolf is moving forward.

Sarcasm? Or do you just hate ranchers?

 

[Rp930]

I am wondering, but it goes against the service manual that drives it home to only perform BMS reset after battery change - which I understand
But the charging algorithm is controlled by the PCM and BCM and is using Time Installed as it's reference (age of battery)
I wonder if doing a BMS reset say every oil change would help in extending the life of the battery and resolve most of the issues owners are experiencing.
I am understanding that the older the battery is (Time Installed) the system is actually lowering its charging phases due to its reference to the time installed (age)
I am only pondering thought here, I have no back up documentation to my theory, I don't think the system actually monitors battery health (ability to hold charge)

If you think about it, you are basically doing the same thing when you are leaving on battery tender etc. you are forcing a new battery charge bypassing the BMS (current-Charging Phase) it is in.

I will dig deep on this subject, but unfortunately there is no real in-depth explanation on how this system works, only vague descriptions. But I'm assuming it proprietary info, or it would be easy to find. The BCM and PCM have the internal programming (set-points) voltages but what are they?
Any why does the manual make it so IMPORTANT, not to perform BMS reset unless battery is replaced?
What harm would it do to perform a BMS reset and refresh the charging phases (cycle) on an older aged battery?
The way I understand it, you would be telling the system, I have a new battery installed (actually) faking it and forcing the system to charge the battery like new, thus by-passing the need for battery tenders

I am also thinking the BMS system operates similar to the OIL Life Reset, it's calcinated by the Time since reset and other factors (miles etc)

If anyone disagrees with this thought - please post

Just A Thought

Just replace the battery and let the system do its job.

 

[D Fresh]

I am wondering, but it goes against the service manual that drives it home to only perform BMS reset after battery change - which I understand
But the charging algorithm is controlled by the PCM and BCM and is using Time Installed as it's reference (age of battery)
I wonder if doing a BMS reset say every oil change would help in extending the life of the battery and resolve most of the issues owners are experiencing.
I am understanding that the older the battery is (Time Installed) the system is actually lowering its charging phases due to its reference to the time installed (age)
I am only pondering thought here, I have no back up documentation to my theory, I don't think the system actually monitors battery health (ability to hold charge)

If you think about it, you are basically doing the same thing when you are leaving on battery tender etc. you are forcing a new battery charge bypassing the BMS (current-Charging Phase) it is in.

I will dig deep on this subject, but unfortunately there is no real in-depth explanation on how this system works, only vague descriptions. But I'm assuming it proprietary info, or it would be easy to find. The BCM and PCM have the internal programming (set-points) voltages but what are they?
Any why does the manual make it so IMPORTANT, not to perform BMS reset unless battery is replaced?
What harm would it do to perform a BMS reset and refresh the charging phases (cycle) on an older aged battery?
The way I understand it, you would be telling the system, I have a new battery installed (actually) faking it and forcing the system to charge the battery like new, thus by-passing the need for battery tenders

I am also thinking the BMS system operates similar to the OIL Life Reset, it's calcinated by the Time since reset and other factors (miles etc)

If anyone disagrees with this thought - please post

Just A Thought

While this seems correct I think the bigger problem is the BMS charging to only 70% of capacity.

Ford has designed the battery to be be the sacrificial lamb in the pursuit of an extra .3 miles per gallon.

Sarcasm? Or do you just hate ranchers?

Sarcasm

 

[KJRR]

Ass stopped working for me and got the system shutdown message a couple times starting about 2.5 yrs after I bought it.
Took it in a few weeks before warranty expired and they tested the system, replaced the battery, tested again and said the BMS isn't working correctly. They replaced the BMS a few weeks later when the part came in and said it was working correctly.
Been working since and I haven't changed my driving habits. It still sits most of the week.
The age tracking and charging algorithm is an intersting theory. Are they outsmarting themselves or is it forced battery replacement? Thinking like printer toner or ink cartridge systems. Or even worse, iPhones.
Not sure I'll change my charging percentage until I start experiencing the issue again so I'll be watching for warning signs until then.

 

[Bsthroop]

While this seems correct I think the bigger problem is the BMS charging to only 70% of capacity.

Ford has designed the battery to be be the sacrificial lamb in the pursuit of an extra .3 miles per gallon.


I agree the 70% is the problem. May work ok if you drive a lot, but will still shorten the battery life because AGMs need to stay fully charged. People who drive less will experience low battery problems along with shortened battery life. Upping the charge % and trickle charging will improve battery life across the board.

 

[JesseS]

I am wondering, but it goes against the service manual that drives it home to only perform BMS reset after battery change - which I understand
But the charging algorithm is controlled by the PCM and BCM and is using Time Installed as it's reference (age of battery)
I wonder if doing a BMS reset say every oil change would help in extending the life of the battery and resolve most of the issues owners are experiencing.
I am understanding that the older the battery is (Time Installed) the system is actually lowering its charging phases due to its reference to the time installed (age)
I am only pondering thought here, I have no back up documentation to my theory, I don't think the system actually monitors battery health (ability to hold charge)

If you think about it, you are basically doing the same thing when you are leaving on battery tender etc. you are forcing a new battery charge bypassing the BMS (current-Charging Phase) it is in.

I will dig deep on this subject, but unfortunately there is no real in-depth explanation on how this system works, only vague descriptions. But I'm assuming it proprietary info, or it would be easy to find. The BCM and PCM have the internal programming (set-points) voltages but what are they?
Any why does the manual make it so IMPORTANT, not to perform BMS reset unless battery is replaced?
What harm would it do to perform a BMS reset and refresh the charging phases (cycle) on an older aged battery?
The way I understand it, you would be telling the system, I have a new battery installed (actually) faking it and forcing the system to charge the battery like new, thus by-passing the need for battery tenders

I am also thinking the BMS system operates similar to the OIL Life Reset, it's calcinated by the Time since reset and other factors (miles etc)

If anyone disagrees with this thought - please post

Just A Thought

ONLY do a BMS reset after charging the battery to 100% with a good AGM charger, otherwise the BMS will not have a starting point for reference. I had this issue with my Lithium batteries in my RV, kept wondering why they would only get charged to 89% (@14.8v). Found out it was because I reset the BMS at that SOC so the thing thought that was 100%.

 

[Caliope]

While this seems correct I think the bigger problem is the BMS charging to only 70% of capacity.

Ford has designed the battery to be be the sacrificial lamb in the pursuit of an extra .3 miles per gallon.


I agree the 70% is the problem. May work ok if you drive a lot, but will still shorten the battery life because AGMs need to stay fully charged. People who drive less will experience low battery problems along with shortened battery life. Upping the charge % and trickle charging will improve battery life across the board.

I also think that the alternator is not big enough to handle powering all of the electrical items while they are in use and charging the battery, so the system draws the battery down. A bigger alternator would of course add to the total vehicle weight.

 

[airline tech]

I agree that the 70% charge is most likely a big part in the battery failing issues, but what frustrates me is that I cannot find any documentation in the manuals that describe this setting.
Sure, when you view in FORscan you see it, but I want to see the documentation in the manuals that drives this percentage and what (if) any repercussions of raising it to a higher percentage.
Sure, owners have raised it to 90% and reported no issues, even some who stated that it fixed the deep sleep issues. But again, I have yet to find anything in the manuals that direct you to change this-since the 70% reference is not even there.
And by changing it - For those under warranty, does it Void the warranty on the battery?

I hope one of the Ford Tech's on this Forum can shed some light on this. I am mechanic by trade and like to know system operation. Where did the 70% come from, did an engineer just pull that number out of his hat?

Sure, I can just worry about it, if and when I have battery issues, but there is clearly an issue or so many owners would not be posting issues with the battery. So, the troubleshooting side of me wants to have a clear understanding of what precisely is causing the issues others are having

The reason this is so important to me is if I were to recommend to someone to raise the SOC to 90%, I want to know what I am telling them is a valid recommendation, not GUESS WORK

Again, just a mechanic looking for a solution other than guess work

 

[airline tech]

ONLY do a BMS reset after charging the battery to 100% with a good AGM charger, otherwise the BMS will not have a starting point for reference. I had this issue with my Lithium batteries in my RV, kept wondering why they would only get charged to 89% (@14.8v). Found out it was because I reset the BMS at that SOC, so the thing thought that was 100%.

While true for Ni-Cad our AGM battery's do not have memory, it is the PCM and BCM controlling the charging phase, and it uses aging battery (algorithm) and changes the charging phase as the battery ages. This is why Ford makes it important to BMS reset after battery change, to force the system to start charging at a new battery (charge phase) instead of the lower aging battery charge phase. The system is not actually reading (battery health) it is a programed computer-controlled charging phase, that lowers as the battery ages

You have to read between the lines, in the service manual for this

 

[maxbottomtime]

My battery is failing it seems. drive 45min, park, immediately get message about remote services being disabled. ASS hasn't worked in a few days. Still under warranty so guess i'll call this week.

 

[airline tech]

While true for Ni-Cad our AGM battery's do not have memory, it is the PCM and BCM controlling the charging phase, and it uses aging battery (algorithm) and changes the charging phase as the battery ages. This is why Ford makes it important to BMS reset after battery change, to force the system to start charging at a new battery (charge phase) instead of the lower aging battery charge phase. The system is not actually reading (battery health) it is a programed computer-controlled charging phase, that lowers as the battery ages

You have to read between the lines, in the service manual for this

Sorry, I just read your post again and I missed the point you were pointing out, have battery at full new charge before reset - now if the system takes current battery voltage (say 12.2 volts as example) then the system may see that as 100% and keep battery at 70% of that voltage.

But when replacing battery - thinking outside the box here, if that were the case there is not a step in the procedure to ensure battery is at 100% charge prior to BMS reset procedure. All batteries will self-discharge on the shelf and depending on how long they sat and how much dust is on them will vary in actual time of install voltage in the battery.
The only reference to BMS reset, pertains to new installed battery, not ensure a certain voltage.
now of course it could be leaving out and assuming 100%, but there is no mention of verify it.
So, I don't have actual documented info on this, but the BMS reset appears to be just a programed setting to adjust charging phases, nothing to do with what the current state of charge is other than charging it at a different charging cycle due to age and the programmed perceived ability of the battery to hold that charge (aging cells)

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